Tired of the discrimination!
(06-09-2020, 10:50 PM)Don Hagliatelli Wrote: My girlfriend lives near Hastings and I sometimes go and play on the Dartslive machines in 180 Sports Bar.

There are also Phoenix machines in some bars, you can find them here:-

https://www.phoenixdarts.com/uk/shop/sho.../page/?0=0

I've never played on the Phoenix.

VSPhoenix is way better than Dartslive actually. A lot of people here actually hate Dartslive, annoying sounds, trebles all same colour, board backlight too freaking bright in a dark environment like in a pub.

In my place, VSPhoenix dominates. I wish there's VSPHOENIX X here.

Just better than the crap Dartslive.
Fav Dart    : Harrows Nemesis 20g & Harrows RAZR Bulbous 20g
Shaft         : Harrows
Flight         : Harrows 
Points        : Cosmo Fit Point + , CHEAP Harrows Conversion Points
Board        : Harrows Pro Matchplay
Electronic  : VSPhoenix!!
OCD Darter!! Harrows Fanboy  Dodgy
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Almost all of the top steel shots in the US also play soft.

Soft at a high level is not like the rest. Split bull and double out is played. Which brings it closer to steel
Darts: 23 gram Shot! Silver Surfer
Flights: LStyle Small Standard Pro
Shafts: LStyle carbon 260 - Gomu
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(06-12-2020, 04:42 AM)Jacob Schaeffer Wrote: Almost all of the top steel shots in the US also play soft.

Soft at a high level is not like the rest. Split bull and double out is played. Which brings it closer to steel

701 is not easy as well, even Phil Taylor can lose to other softip players. Miss the bull once and you're done. 701 is made easy and it's also made it easier for your better opponent, don't miss the bull even once!
Fav Dart    : Harrows Nemesis 20g & Harrows RAZR Bulbous 20g
Shaft         : Harrows
Flight         : Harrows 
Points        : Cosmo Fit Point + , CHEAP Harrows Conversion Points
Board        : Harrows Pro Matchplay
Electronic  : VSPhoenix!!
OCD Darter!! Harrows Fanboy  Dodgy
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I must admit I dismissed soft tip but due to the lockdown purchased a board (wife won't let steel tip in the house with good reason) also watched Phil Taylor at the Home darts thing now a convert (can't wait to play steel in the pub though).
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(06-15-2020, 10:32 PM)jezola Wrote: I must admit I dismissed soft tip but due to the lockdown purchased a board (wife won't let steel tip in the house with good reason) also watched Phil Taylor at the Home darts thing now a convert (can't wait to play steel in the pub though).

I'm mainly a soft tip player, but have a steel tip board as well. I think each is equally fun, and each has its own place and time. I'm glad to see a "convert"! Smile
Jason S - Middle of USA - South Dakota
Darts: Over 46 sets - Currently Using Whichever One Feels Right
Board: Target Nexus / One80 Gladiator III
Highest Out: 170
Best Leg: 12 Darts (Many shots at a 10 darter - Arghhh)
2020 Maximums: Goal set at 200 - Goal of 200 reached on 3/29/20 - Should've set higher goal.  Blush
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"It always seems impossible until it is done." - Nelson Mandela
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Steel tip darts has been around longer, there is more money in it, and, thus, the best throwers in the world play steel tip darts. Steel tip players use those facts to say that soft tip darts is a joke. But it's a lot like Vanderbilt football fans hanging their hats on the SEC football conference, even though their team isn't any good. Elite steel tip players are super good; e.g., Phil Taylor dominates at soft tip darts, too, and I'm sure van Gerwen would, as well. It doesn't mean that the average steel tip thrower is superior to the average soft tip thrower. It just means that van Gerwin can make of $1 mil/year+ playing steel tip darts, so why would he play soft tip for a pay cut? When you step away from the elite steel tip throwers, the average towny steel tip thrower isn't any better than the average towny soft tip thrower, just like Vanderbilt isn't any better than the average team from any other football conference. I've played both against other people that play both. We are all about the same rank position in each league at the end of a session.

I personally enjoy soft tip better, b/c it's much easier to hit a bullseye and not do math when you have had too much to drink in comparison to hitting a triple 20 and trying to set up your double outs.
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Mensur Suljovic, Krzystof Ratajski and Jose De Sousa...soft tip didn't do them any harm.

Boris Krcmar played really well beating Chisnall in the Summer Series last week.

I think we'd see maybe more PDC Steel tip players giving things a go in the Soft Tip world if the PDC contracts allowed for players to play on non-PDC streams. I don't know the exact rules as I remember Bunting doing well in 1 of the Dartslive events.

Top players will do well in any form of the game to a certain level. I think sometimes European players can make the mistake in thinking they are taking the easy route to soft tip because they can't/haven't achieved what they wanted in Steel Tip.

If everyone played the same game under soft/steel I think we'd see the top end of the Steel PDC rankings similar but the top guys in soft tip could certainly cause a few upsets/win a Pro Tour.

Noel Malicdem could/should of beat Peter Wright at the World Championship, I'm not saying that he'd of gone on to win the World Championship but you can't just dismiss anyone who plays soft tip as a "lesser player"
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(04-11-2020, 02:16 AM)JAMSGOLF Wrote: Interesting that you posted this. It's something I've been thinking about quite a bit lately; not necessarily the discrimination part, but the perceived differences between soft and steel tip darting. While I wouldn't classify what I see as discrimination necessarily, I do believe the two are viewed differently. And while I am (at the moment) strictly playing soft tip, I can't wait to get my steel tip board installed and get started down that road as well. I too believe there are some aspects of soft tip which make it "easier" than steel tip.

One thing to consider is tradition. I think some people believe steel tips is where it started and that's where it should stay. Maybe those people feel soft tips are the red headed step child of the sport. I see their point, but as the world evolves and adapts, so must we all. Soft tip play generates income in ways that steel tip play cannot. So, from what I can see in the US, bars and pubs use it to generate income rather than relying on alcohol sales from steel tip play. It's similar to coin-op pool tables versus 9 foot Brunswick's (or ten foot snooker tables). I think there is a similar view from snooker players versus pool players...

Things that make soft tip play easier; larger segments, outer ring of bull is worth 50 rather than 25, and darts land in a straight-on position 97% of the time, and there's no doubling out.

Those four things alone are massive game changers...remember, I'm a soft tip player, so no hating on me.  Blush

I felt "sheepish" posting pics of my 180s (at first) in the Show your 180 thread, worried if I would be given grief as a soft tipper. If you peruse the thread, there aren't that many soft tippers posting pics in there. I like to be a trendsetter.  Rolleyes  I know it's easier for me to hit maximums on the soft tip board as opposed to a steel tip board, and I don't pretend that it's not. As of today, I have had over 220 maximums since January 1st. Do I think that number would be the same if I had been playing steel tip instead? Nope. I sure don't. Do I believe I will get there eventually once I switch over to steel tip? Yes I do...but that's my own confidence level in how I'm progressing - I've only been throwing seriously for a little over a year.  Wink

The bull area is not only a game changer when it comes to racking up points in 501 as the entire area is worth 50, but it's a game changer with HOW one plays their outshots. When playing soft tip, there's not OPTION of 25 points with one dart...that can really come in handy in numerous situations.

Darts landing in a straight on position is a HUGE advantage in my mind. For soft tippers, it doesn't matter at what angle the dart enters the holes, because of the actual nature of the holes, they align the darts straight (minus a few times when flights get crossed and bends the soft tip and the dart into the awkward position. In steel tip, the dart stays in the position in which it enters the board. When darts are straight on (e.g. Phil Taylor's darts) it eliminates a tremendous amount of blocked shots which do not have to be worked around. This is why I've focused on Phil Taylor's throwing style - and subsequently Peter Wright's.

One of the biggest differences is doubling out. Averages are higher for a lot of soft tippers (myself included) as we don't have to double out. That's just off the charts advantageous.

I love soft tip and will continue playing it. I am also eager to get my steel tip board mounted right next to the soft tip and we'll see how that goes...but knowing me, I'll put whatever time and effort is necessary into that, as I have the soft tip. I anticipate frustration and eventually satisfaction.   Smile


As far as the "child's toys" comment...I believe it is far more difficult to throw a lighter dart accurately than it is a heavier dart. Isn't that why steel tippers generally throw darts far heavier than the 20 gram maximum weight allowed in soft tip play? Just sayin'...   Big Grin

Great thread topic, and just my  2cents

Hi Guys, Been recovering from a near death accident.  Still have one more surgery to go through, but hopefully I’ll make it through this next one.

I agree completely with this post.  I started with soft tip, because the bars I went to only had soft tip boards. At the same time I purchased steel tip for home use.  Now I have steel and soft tip side by side.  I am also involved in competition pistol and rifle shooting.  To me steel/soft tip darts and rifle/pistol are Both just a different set of tools for the same sport.  The knowledge experience for using both soft/steel and pistol/rifle are the same.

Mental focus (Not allowing my environment to overcome my focus), seeing in your mind exactly where the dart/bullet is going to hit before the throw/fire takes place, control of body movement and breathing, research and testing on your equipment to find out what works the best for you, and MOST IMPORTANTLY the enjoyment of competition among friends.  

If anything throwing both soft/steel tip keeps me from getting in a rut when my focus is off.  There is this satisfying sound both type of darts makes when my throw is perfect, which are equally enjoyable. When I’m out and about it doesn’t matter what type of board is on the wall, because I always carry both soft and steel tip darts, and am equally comfortable with throwing both.  Which means to me I’m more open to meet new friends.
Gran 3 - ID: Bull007, One80 Gladiator 3, & Nodor President
Darts: Target, Colonial, Unicorn & Pacer - Soft & Steel Tip
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When I was young I was introduced to darts in the form of American Darts using a my father's Widdy board. My friends and I would make up our own games since we didn't know the right way. I didn't play often, it was just another option when we were bored on a rainy day. After the board wore out my father took it down and didn't replace it.

That was my only darting experience until 30+ years later. I started working on a project at work that involved travel to Japan. My coworkers' favorite after-work activity while we were on travel was playing on Phoenix and DartsLive boards even though most didn't play darts much when not in Japan. I somewhat enjoyed playing, but didn't care for it all that much. After a few years I bought a soft-tip board for me and the family to use at home. Eventually I really got hooked on it and bought a Winmau Blade 5 and found a steel-tip league to play in.

Steel-tip playing (English and American styles) is taken more seriously where I live since there are more leagues and more bars that have boards, but there are soft-tip leagues around too. I just haven't gotten into them as much since they are farther from my home. I love both steel-tip and soft-tip and the variety it adds to playing. If I get a little bored of one while playing at home I switch to the other. That keeps me going.

Now I've even come full circle by buying an American Board. I went to the Widdy factory to buy it in person since it's less than an hour's drive from my home. Since I live in the Northeast there are leagues for that too, although I haven't joined any. Adding American Darts expands my options even more even if I do play that one the least.

My opinion, but I find steel-tip English darts the most difficult followed by American darts, and then soft-tip as the easiest if I'm just throwing darts alone. I've had huge outs when playing soft-tip double-out that are way higher than anything I've done so far in steel-tip. This is due to the larger segments. When playing '01 games alone or against others we do often set the option that requires double-out or master-out. When it comes to competition it doesn't really matter which game you are playing, it's more about how you measure up against your opponent. When playing alone I do find soft-tip the most convenient due to the option of bots. Sure I can play steel-tip using an app that has bots like Dart Connect, but it's still more convenient to just turn the soft-tip board on and pick an opponent. The online play of Gran Board or Target Nexus adds a whole new level when you can't get out to a bar or friend's home for a game.

If one form of darts is all you need then you're all set. If you are like me and prefer some variety, look into soft-tip. Still want more? Consider American Darts too. I'm sure American Darts will draw even more flak than soft-tip, but just because you prefer one style over another shouldn't lead you to attack others. I love all darts and would like to see them all grow. Let's promote all forms of darts and stop putting each other down.
Favorite darts: 22 gram Target Phil Taylor G4, 22 gram Laserdarts Black Widows 
Boards:  Winmau Blade 5, Gladiator III, Gran Board 3s (soft), Widdy (American)
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Widdy board for all those curious.  Courtesy of Wikipedia:

[Image: V1lwAo3.jpg]
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(09-01-2020, 05:03 PM)nixer55 Wrote: Widdy board for all those curious.  Courtesy of Wikipedia:

That's the one.  We mostly play baseball on it.  Games are simple and fast, but it can be used for most games that an English board can be used for.  The playable area rotates for even wear since baseball only uses sections 1-9.  The red area is doubles and the outer white area is the triples.  The blue area is out of bounds.  The boards come in wood (which I have) or rolled paper and they are each two-sided.  Just flip it around when it gets worn.  They last a long time.  The bullseye is only used to see who gets choice on who goes first.  Unlike '01 or cricket there isn't an advantage to going first in baseball, it's just preference since everyone gets the same number of turns.  Many players prefer to go 2nd since that means you go last for each inning and you know what you are up against.  Another difference is that everyone uses the same darts which are supplied by the host.  I'm probably missing some details, but I don't play in a league so I'm sure I haven't learned everything.

Thanks for posting that picture.
Favorite darts: 22 gram Target Phil Taylor G4, 22 gram Laserdarts Black Widows 
Boards:  Winmau Blade 5, Gladiator III, Gran Board 3s (soft), Widdy (American)
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Sorry to hear about the discrimination out there against soft tip players.  I started out with steel tips, being introduced to darts while on an extended visit to Ireland and Scotland where bristle boards were as common as pint glasses.  On returning to the US, and a university town, I found that there were as many soft tip boards or more, than steel tips where I lived.  Although I mostly played steel and joined a steel tip league, I also bought a set of softies to compete with a buddy in a soft tip tournament and had a great time.  I found that a lot of the players competed in both, as there just weren't that many tournaments in the area for either type, so by playing both you gave yourself essentially twice the number of opportunities.  I usually kept my soft tips in their case with a set of conversion points in the glove box of my car when travelling out of town so that no matter what type of board was available in the local pub I would be good to go.  Always got along well with all the darters I've met, regardless of point preference.  Hope whatever prejudices exist stop.  In the US darting is a relatively small community as it is.  We don't need division amongst ourselves.
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