Target Darts.

soft vs steel
(10-26-2019, 08:40 PM)Elusive Dream Wrote: Forget the triple 20 even exists,  throw for the bull area since it is all 50 for soft tip.

Correct, nothing but bulls.
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(10-30-2019, 07:07 PM)elevendarter Wrote:
(10-30-2019, 01:50 PM)LKH9 Wrote:
(10-24-2019, 10:36 AM)Eso Rimmer Wrote: thanks for answer, dont you damage dartboard by that or is it ok?

I frown upon those who throw softips into sisal boards. For God sake use conversion points! Cheap conversion points are sufficient, same size as actual steel tip.

Yep, same size, sort of, if you use the long tips. However totally different balance of your set up. That's why I prefer having original steel tip darts. I know many players who use conversion points. Mostly players who come by now and then and don't want to invest in original steel tip darts yet. Once they start playing steel tips regularly they usually go the traditional way and buy proper darts...

Being mainly a softip player, I will stick to my go-to softip darts with conversion points. The reason I don't use 'proper' steeltip darts is because the fear of the point breaking off and get stuck in the barrel. I do own several steeltip darts, 23g to 26g, really nice to throw but never use them.

The reason Target developed the new Swiss Point.

And it's fun to throw those 23g darts, it sounds like torpedoes hitting the wall.
Fav Dart    : Harrows Nemesis 20g & Harrows RAZR Bulbous 20g
Shaft         : Harrows
Flight         : Harrows 
Points        : Cosmo Fit Point + , CHEAP Harrows Conversion Points
Board        : Harrows Pro Matchplay
Electronic  : VSPhoenix!!
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(10-31-2019, 12:02 AM)LKH9 Wrote:
(10-30-2019, 07:07 PM)elevendarter Wrote:
(10-30-2019, 01:50 PM)LKH9 Wrote:
(10-24-2019, 10:36 AM)Eso Rimmer Wrote: thanks for answer, dont you damage dartboard by that or is it ok?

I frown upon those who throw softips into sisal boards. For God sake use conversion points! Cheap conversion points are sufficient, same size as actual steel tip.

Yep, same size, sort of, if you use the long tips. However totally different balance of your set up. That's why I prefer having original steel tip darts. I know many players who use conversion points. Mostly players who come by now and then and don't want to invest in original steel tip darts yet. Once they start playing steel tips regularly they usually go the traditional way and buy proper darts...

Being mainly a softip player, I will stick to my go-to softip darts with conversion points. The reason I don't use 'proper' steeltip darts is because the fear of the point breaking off and get stuck in the barrel. I do own several steeltip darts, 23g to 26g, really nice to throw but never use them.

The reason Target developed the new Swiss Point.

And it's fun to throw those 23g darts, it sounds like torpedoes hitting the wall.

If it works well for you, then there's no reason to look for anything else. However, if you use the steel tip darts, then I'd recommend using those with plain silver or black points. Or golden, whatever. The chance you break one of those is quite small. I've never broken a single point in my life. A few of my mates did break some, mostly Storm points or knurled, ringed or other cut types. Of course, having a thick carpet instead of the hard concrete floor helps as well.

The reason why Target developed the new Swiss points is, imho, they want to sell more products. BTW, those points are pretty expensive, regarding how fragile they are. Quite a gimmick, I'd say.

And as far as the noise was mentioned, there's no doubt that the steel tip dartboards are much quiter than the electronic machines. That was the main reason for me why I bought the sisal dartboard instead of the electronic one back then in 1998 when I bought my first dartboard ever. And those times I used to play only soft tips competitively and practiced with plastic tips at home. TBH, I had no idea there were some conversion points available, I saw the first metal points only after I had been playing darts for a few years. And I discovered even later that there were some pople playing steel tips in our country and in the world! At first it was just those electronic machines in pubs that brought me to darts. I thought that the sisal dartboards were just history, only good enough for practicing at home. I know it sounds strange, but I had got the dartboard earlier than I had internet :-)
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Yes, softip dartboard is unuseable in a house with other people or next door. The impact sound is too loud, and the constant need for tips replacement = More unnecessary cost. My cheapo Harrows conversion point is goin to last forever!

My belief is that, any decent softip player should use conversion points and test their softip darts on a 'proper' sisal board. Test how their darts enter the board. I see some softip players having frequent bounceouts, even when throwing my well-configured darts, which obviously fly true at 90 angle. I suppose these players have never tested their throw on sisal board.

One of my softip friends finally realized his release problem after testing on the sisal board for the very first time, corkscrewing straight barrel darts. All bending to a side at weird angles.
Fav Dart    : Harrows Nemesis 20g & Harrows RAZR Bulbous 20g
Shaft         : Harrows
Flight         : Harrows 
Points        : Cosmo Fit Point + , CHEAP Harrows Conversion Points
Board        : Harrows Pro Matchplay
Electronic  : VSPhoenix!!
OCD Darter!! Harrows Fanboy  Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.
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If you want to see how your soft tip darts fly and stick in a sisal board, I would not recommend using conversion points for that.

They will weigh more than soft points and change the balance if your darts, so the results will be misleading.
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(10-31-2019, 12:45 PM)Don Hagliatelli Wrote: If you want to see how your soft tip darts fly and stick in a sisal board, I would not recommend using conversion points for that.

They will weigh more than soft points and change the balance if your darts, so the results will be misleading.

I feel that it makes no difference for me, the small weight difference is just too minute, like an extra piece of tissue paper like John Lowe said. I can see mines enter the same on sisal and electronic boards. My friend was once watching my darts flight from the side on the electronic machine, he tells me my dart flights are very straight like a speeding arrow. Exactly the same results on sisal board, 90 degree on the board.

Just don't use the carbon steel or stainless steel conversion points, those are really heavy enough to affect the balance. If you need better result for a peace of mind, use L-Style Carbon Hardlip or titanium points. Or those One80 Reflex conversion points.

I've seen a Chinese guy here who reached 1000+ points on Count-Up on VSphoenix machine, later switched to One80 conversion points on the very same darts and proceed to play steel tip 501, very consistent throws I see there. So no difference at all.
Fav Dart    : Harrows Nemesis 20g & Harrows RAZR Bulbous 20g
Shaft         : Harrows
Flight         : Harrows 
Points        : Cosmo Fit Point + , CHEAP Harrows Conversion Points
Board        : Harrows Pro Matchplay
Electronic  : VSPhoenix!!
OCD Darter!! Harrows Fanboy  Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.
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From my memory - the plastic tips (I use Cosmo Fit Point Plus) weigh about 0,3g. L-Style hardlips were less than 0,5. Still a bit heavier than plastic tips. Target titanium points are about 1g (26mm). Carbon steel points that I weighed were above 1,5g. Common alu/steel points are about 1,5g as well. I haven't weighed the One80 Reflex points but they seem to be light. A friend of mine uses them and to be honest, they seem to be the best choice to me, weight and balance wise. Ten years ago I was trying the M3 steel points and while I hoped they would be better balanced than common conversion points, they were even worse instead.

Not mentioning that nor hard lips neither titanium points don't last long. I had to brush about five boxes of hard lips (ten sets) before I admitted that this can't be the way if I wanted to play on a daily bases. I haven't used the titanium points much because when the producers came with those I hadn't already used any conversion points anymore. I saw though how they're gettin blunt when other players used them.

I know players who like the changed balance when they put the heavier conversion points on and they even started using the even heavier points with brass base. Then I know a lot more of those who didn't like how the balance was changed. And surely there is a few (like you) who can't tell the difference at all. I remember how I wanted to practice a bit of soft tips before a tournament just a few years ago. I was hitting anything I wanted with the conversion points. Almost the same like when I play softips at ht e pub. Then I put the plastic tips on and couldn't believe that difference. I felt that practicing with conversion points wasn't a good idea. The best way how to lose your grip... And I had a set of hollowed steel tip points that were only about 1,2g!

Now I only practice steel tips even though I play one soft tip tournament almost every thursday (and 1 - 2, sometimes 3 steel tip tournaments a week). I don't have any problems with picking a set of darts that is approximately 6g lighter than my steel tips and going and winning the soft tip tournament almost regularly. I did have a problem though when I was changing points.
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I use the same barrels for soft and steel.

I use Target titanium conversion points for steel. As somebody has said, these weigh about 1g compared to 0.25g for my soft tips. I definitely see a difference in the angle they enter the board. Also, I play soft tip from 8' which may make a difference. When testing my set up on a sisal board, I use soft tips from 8'.

I agree about the titanium points going blunt. I've been through a few sets where they've been sharpened so many times that they're noticeably shorter and they're harder to sharpen and the point gets thicker. They're not too expensive so it's not a big deal.
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Could it be those who don't feel any major difference are those who throw straight and hard like Phil Taylor? Those who lob softly will feel the impact of the heavier tip I suspect.


I'm actually curious about those Harrows conversion points, what's the point made of? It's so tough, it already punctured multiple holes on my concrete floor from bounceouts or when they hit the concrete wall from missed doubles, but the tips are still sharp, never see any signs of damage on them. I only sharpened them like a few times within a year, still very sharp. And they are dirt cheap to boot.

Exactly the same angle on electronic boards, no wobbling after sticking in the holes.
   
Fav Dart    : Harrows Nemesis 20g & Harrows RAZR Bulbous 20g
Shaft         : Harrows
Flight         : Harrows 
Points        : Cosmo Fit Point + , CHEAP Harrows Conversion Points
Board        : Harrows Pro Matchplay
Electronic  : VSPhoenix!!
OCD Darter!! Harrows Fanboy  Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.
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Video 
This video is the best example of a softip dart being used for steeltip and electronic machine in one pack. With Target Titanium conversion points.

Fav Dart    : Harrows Nemesis 20g & Harrows RAZR Bulbous 20g
Shaft         : Harrows
Flight         : Harrows 
Points        : Cosmo Fit Point + , CHEAP Harrows Conversion Points
Board        : Harrows Pro Matchplay
Electronic  : VSPhoenix!!
OCD Darter!! Harrows Fanboy  Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.
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